Death of the manual gearbox?

[campbell]

It's just progress. Not necessarily relentless.

There is a demand for these features. Otherwise the units would not sell.

Porsche to ship new gen GT3 with paddle shift only. Case closed. The herds will shortly follow.

We've got into a habit of using a gearshift. We can easily unlearn that. We didn't have a natural affinity for it before learning to drive. And can you imagine how much easier it would be to learn without having to find a bite point for a hill start!

I happen to "like" using a manual shift too, especially if well engineered. But even the Elise shift is enjoyable once mastered. IMHO, of course.

Unlikely to own a flappy paddle car for many years yet though, so not losing sleep over it.

Oh and for wipers replacement, get RainX in spray format. I also imagine a superheated quick clear windscreen could be made to work for this purpose...

[Shug]

Perhaps it makes me an "Evo-subscribing Troy Queef type", but one of the real pleasures for me in driving the Elise on track was the knowledge that there was only you in control. Aye, you can argue about the loss of manual timing advance way back in the day taking control away from the driver, but the simple fact is that even with the very best paddle box, there is a layer of interactivity with the mechanicals that is stripped away. I loved the feeling it gave you when everything was flowing and you were heel & toeing down the box into the hairpin - even using a mismatch in revs to unsettle the rear and rotate the car into the corner. There was no doubt about who was doing it - it was the driver, not the car. Best will in the world, a paddle box won't let you do that and it's a shame. Might be quicker, might be technically better, but it's not as tactile. I like mechanical things. I'd hate to think we'll get to a stage where even back to basics things like Caterhams will only be available with paddles, but appreciate it's likely to happen.

Interestingly, my motorcycle has probably more electronic aids than any car I've had. Flat-shift gearbox, slipper clutch so there's less need to rev-match on downshifts, variable traction control and anti-wheelie, ABS, etc, etc. And yes, the arguments are the same in biking - I'd probably be on the 'luddite' side there as well if I'd passed my test 15 years ago. For my experience level, it makes it safer and simpler, so that's my reasoning there - doesn't bother me really, so maybe I should apply that thinking to cars. Just seems a shame, all that time I put into practising something that's going to disappear. I'll miss a manual 'box when I've no longer got one. And yes, I occasionally heel/toe on the way to tescos...

[Lazydonkey]

The bike analogy is an interesting one Shug - there are many in the biking community who are against ABS......whereas most in our circle (mainly those who passed less than 5 years ago) would welcome a good ABS system with open arms .

I'm on the fence - i've driven a bad flappy paddle (citroen c2) and i've driven a good one (VAG DSG) and Ive got to say that for a daily driver i'd be sorely tempted. Mind you i enjoyed my 300c slushbox as a daily driver so maybe my opinion counts for nothing

[Shug]

Depends on the car though, doesn't it? My S8, for the majority of the time, wouldn't benefit from the manual box IMO. It's not designed for total driver involvement. As Campbell says, the GT3 has signed the death warrant for the total drivers car having a manual option - that's what I think the shame is. In a daily driver road car, I think a paddle box is a no brainer now.

[alicrozier]

Yep, I seem to have most variants in the fleet.
Golf GTi, DSG
370Z, 7 speed auto with flappy paddles
2-11, manual

Obviously the 2-11 has to be manual per Shugs comments, for track and occasional (fun) road blasts.

For day to day driving you really can't beat the DSG. Smooth upshifts, zero hassle in traffic and fun enough for 90% of journeys (probably 100% of journeys for 95% of the population!). The full auto modes are a bit extreme, normal is extreme economy and changes up to 6th at 40mph wheras sport holds the red line. Something in-between or infinitely variable would be nice. I guess software sophistication will improve...or I could stop being lazy and use the paddles.

The auto in the 370Z feels old by comparison (it's a proper slushbox), not as smooth when bimbling (I find I second guess it a bit too) and a bit brutal in full bore manual mode. The fixed magnesium paddles are an infinite improvement on the Golf's plastic steering wheel jobbies mind you. Always fun blipping down 5 gears for roundabouts though, especially with the Milltek exhaust.

[Dominic]

My daily (Audi A3) had DSG. I was not sure before I drove it, but have to say, I would get another. The DSG is sharper and smoother than conventional automatics, and as others have said - it's good for MPG, as well as super smooth quick changes. It makes my commute a much more relaxed affair. I have choice of flappy paddles or using the gear stick to shift ratios when I want; rarely do I use either, but when I do, it's the paddles.

However, I also have the elise. It makes a good balanced fleet IMHO. I love the involvement in the elise; as Shug says, the mechanical tactile connection is a joy. If I did not have the elise, would I have a DSG (or similar) as my only car?... I'm not sure; a few years ago I would have said no; now having owned a DSG equipped car, I could be tempted.

[woody]

Had a fairly long drive in a purely auto 7 speed DSG equiped car at the weekend, was very impressed with the smothness and predictability of the changes Vs a conventional auto.