Cables (HDMI/VGA/Mini Jack) NLC

[David]

Re the HMDI cable length: the problem is, at the frequencies used, the attenuation within the cable reduces the signal until the signal to noise ratio is such that it's difficult to recover the signal as Shug describes. Better quality cables just delay the process a meter or two but there is a physical limit and it will only reduce as the cable ages/absorbs moisture etc.

[Stewart]

Last month I ditched Sky in favour of y freesat HDR. I bought a powered hdmi splitter from the 'bay and the cheapest 15m hdmi cable I could find. All working fine with no issues. YMMV

[Corranga]

It's a digital cable, surely it'll either work perfectly, or it won't..

Sadly, one of the things that gets trotted out a lot (by me as well, in the past, when I didn't have the full info) There's an expectation of bit-errors in any cable, so HDMI kit has error correction built in. However, with longer and longer runs of lower quality stuff, you can get to a stage where there's enough errors that the correction becomes noticeable - so it's not 'on' or 'off' but there is a degradation in image and sound quality.

So it's not a simple case of plugging it in and seeing if it works.

I get that signal degrades over the length of the cable, and eventually there is going to be too many errors to be corrected (no medium is perfect etc..), what I don't get is why it's not a simple case of plugging it in and seeing if it works. I mean if it's a 7m cable, it's never going to grow any longer, so the signal is never going to have to trawl through any more than it ever has. Surely if it performs fine on day 1, it'll still perform the same on day 1,000..

...and it will only reduce as the cable ages/absorbs moisture etc.

..unless age effects the performance
With analogue cabling, interference used to be an issue too, I presume this will come back into play as the signal becomes weaker in the length and more prone to error, so shielding might not be a terrible plan.

15 years ago you'd be running component leads in your wall, in 15 years time we'll probably all be buying SHD TVs and needing whatever the new cable is anyway, so I won't go seeing this as proper future proofing... (sorry)

CAT5 wise, I can't echo what the others re saying enough. I don't live in the oldest of houses (mid 30s brick built with brick interior walls).
My house can be split into 3 sections with near equal width rooms. The router is in the office at 1 end. The living room in the middle gets about 50% signal strength.
The kitchen at the far end doesn't get wireless at all!

[tonyg]

How long have you got?

Every single model of HDMI cable will give you different results.
Would i pay nearly £6000 for one - don't be stupid.
But i would pay £100-150 for a 7m one for a £2500 TV or projector - also remember with modern houses it's next to impossible to add cables once the walls are up.

Regarding longer runs there are more cables coming on the market with regenerators built one, so that should give you a better result at longer runs, but they cost more.

Not all HDMI-cat 5 convertors are the same either - they apply different compression rates and make a mess of the signal that way - have a look at the speed of the unit.Also better ones only require power at one end (usually the transmitter) - so that makes it easier when putting a TV on the wall.
The best way to do it is without compression (They're marketed as HD Base T units) but they're still expensive.

Suggestion would be one HDMI and at least two shielded cat 6 (not cat 5- data rate is to slow for decent video now let alone when TV becomes 3840 x 2160 which may happen soon or even 7680 x 4320 which has been tested) cables to the TV from an AV receiver or a switch.
You never know - in the near future TV might be distibuted via optic fibre rather than aerial/satellite dish as network speed increases.

Remember also if you are going to install a home cinema projector they tend to have quite a narrow position range relative to the screen if you are going to run cables and mains to them.

[robin]

A friend of mine used to say that all electronics was analogue, even the digital stuff. He was, of course, right (that was in the day when we thought we were doing well to get a microprocessor and memory running at 16MHz ).

I believe that if your 7m cable works out of the box, whilst still coiled, then the chances of it being so marginal as to later on give you trouble due to moisture absorption are very small indeed.

Cables tend to break when flexed - your cable will be static for its whole life I think. Small fractures in the cable create signal reflections which in turn ruin your signal-to-noise ratio.

I would buy a cheap cable that is rated for use for the resolution you want to run - I guess that's 1080P unless you have some equipment from the stone age . Test the cable and make sure it works fine - try some content that will show up artefacts well. Be sure to include a spare cable in the cavity so that when one breaks you can switch to the other.

Or do what I did - just dangle the cables from one thing to another at jaunty angles .... you cannot see the cables when the lights are off

Cheers,
Robin

[campbell]

If you can make it all work on Cat 5, perhaps you can simply install a pair (or more) of homeplug wireline items and make your whole ring main your network.

Ours runs great for video-serving, although I'm not generally up at the screen counting the pixels...

[this was another Robin-ism...the originator of "it just works...just enough" ]

[robin]

Wired networks are OK for MPEG content but not raw content. There isn't the bandwidth for 1080P on even a 1GBit link without some form of compression.

Cheers,
Robin

[David]

It's a digital cable, surely it'll either work perfectly, or it won't..

So it's not a simple case of plugging it in and seeing if it works.

I get that signal degrades over the length of the cable, and eventually there is going to be too many errors to be corrected (no medium is perfect etc..), what I don't get is why it's not a simple case of plugging it in and seeing if it works. I mean if it's a 7m cable, it's never going to grow any longer, so the signal is never going to have to trawl through any more than it ever has. Surely if it performs fine on day 1, it'll still perform the same on day 1,000..

...and it will only reduce as the cable ages/absorbs moisture etc.

..unless age effects the performance
With analogue cabling, interference used to be an issue too, I presume this will come back into play as the signal becomes weaker in the length and more prone to error, so shielding might not be a terrible plan.

I mentioned this only because I was embarrassed by environmental factors during the commissioning of the BBC PQ building. There was one technical area that was known to be approaching the limits of cable length but it tested OK. It was only six month later when winter came along and the building was fully populated by staff that this area ‘fell off the cliff’. Several cables became unusable - we put it down to the humidity increasing.

[DJ]

I put cat6 all through my house at build point. As others say, you only get one chance at this unless you want to make an awful lot of mess. Looking at you hdmi potential prices cat6 will be way cheaper. Perhaps that doesn't matter if only a short run but I was only a few hundred pounds for the sparky to do it at same time as wiring the house, if your renovations are going that far. If going cat, better going 6 than 5 or 5e.

[s29ttc]

Thanks for all the help and responses although i am more confused to when I began. Looking for plastering to start not this weekend but next, house is fully rewired, new aerial points all in and the intention is to buy 4 hdmi's and a VGA cable chuck them in the wall at the weekend and bobs your uncle. My hesitation was the type of cable. Now I donno whether to put 1 in with a box, buy expensive ones, buy what I think is reasonable 20-30 quid cable chuck them in and see how it goes or what. I don't know what the use of the cat 5 or 6 would be for me. I simply have an apple tv and a couple of iPads at home that work off standard wireless router. I also occasionally work from my work laptop if need be' for work activities and that's it. Would I end up feeding these wires in and have no use for them? Also timescales is it worth holding up plastering the house more for this? I'm totally confused, one part says buy 20-30 quid cales wack them in plaster in and see what happens the other is worrying about my later regrets of this.

[BiggestNizzy]

I don't know what the use of the cat 5 or 6 would be for me. I simply have an apple tv and a couple of iPads at home that work off standard wireless router.

Wired is always better. If you run 1 cable in at least you can use it to pull other cables through regardless of what happens in the future.

If you don't and want to you will have to spend a day swearing at the wall as you try and rag the cables through.

[campbell]

Simply step back for a mo and ask yourself exactly what you are trying to achieve, Scott.

Then post it up here and we'll have another go at simplifing it!

All I read at the top of the thread was "want to put some HDMIs in the wall"...perhaps that's jumping to the solution before describing the problem

[s29ttc]

Right what I have is a blank wall. My aim is the hang the flat screen tv on the wall with the DVD player Xbox etc in the corner and the wires to be hidden in the wall I.e. don't want wires dangling all across the room. On the middle wall I have a double socket and aerial which when the tv is hung will hide them so last part is the connections to what's linked to the tv.

Next room is going to be music/bar room with a wall mounted projector. Again a double socket is on a wall and I'll run vga and hdmi so I can plug the connecting equipment in the corner alcove which connects to the projector without dangling wires.

Just confused at the best thing to do, lots of good suggestions, but more choices than I had previously. I didn't really think I would have a need for cat5/6 but now I am wondering.

[Doc883]

This is a fool proof way of having a clean looking wall with no dangling cables and full access to chop and change cables as you see fit

[Doc883]

Or on a more serious note I had a similar predicament when we built a single storey rear extension. I wanted to wall mount the TV and have 5.1 surround sound whilst having the AV equipment in the room next door out of sight. In the end I ran a single 7m HDMi cable between the 2 rooms connecting the TV to my Sony Amp. Connected to the Amp is my SKY box, PS3 etc with the Amp acting as my HDMi switch to select the Input. I also ran good quality speaker cable to pre-determined positions in the extension and terminated them on a double sized facia plate on the wall at the rear of the Amp position. Then all I needed to do to connect the 5.1 was make up very short jumper cables using speaker connectors. I have a power isolator switch off to the right of the TV in the corner of the room and ran a mains extension under the floor and hidden behind the wall to the rear of the TV. Here I have a mains junction box that connects to my TV power lead so I can switch it on/off with the switch out of sight. In hindsight I should have also installed a Cat 5 cable or 2 (this was 3 years ago) whilst doing this as more and more TV's are becoming Smart and can access the NET. For your situation I'd install 2 Cat 6 cables and terminate them on Cat 6 wall plates where your Broadband Router sits. If I need Broadband to my TV I'll just add a powerline adaptor and hey presto

Oh and whilst on price I paid £200 for my HDMi cable (back in 2009) as it was the only 7m one I could in time before the builders installed the plasterboard. It has a lifetime warranty (Monster) and touch wood had been faultless. Today I would probably install 2 albeit a lot cheaper at circa £35-£40 each.