Honda conversion.

[robin]

So if it runs lean and you get knock then the ecu will pull timing and add fuel. Ok that will reduce power but crucially it'll save the engine.

So safe to run on standard ecu without worrying about it blowing up. Ok it may not be full power but also not risky?

I think there is a middle path that is potentially damaging. If the engine is "a bit lean" it might not knock, but the exhaust will still be much hotter and you risk burning out the exhaust valves; usually engines run a bit rich at high RPM/full throttle so that you have a bit of fuel left in the exhaust to cool the valves; at least that's my understanding - could easily be wrong.

Cheers,
Robin

[robin]

Egor is chassis 001 of the S2 135R ... but no longer resembles the 135R beyond the chassis plaque and the wheels

[pete]

So if it runs lean and you get knock then the ecu will pull timing and add fuel. Ok that will reduce power but crucially it'll save the engine.

So safe to run on standard ecu without worrying about it blowing up. Ok it may not be full power but also not risky?

I think there is a middle path that is potentially damaging. If the engine is "a bit lean" it might not knock, but the exhaust will still be much hotter and you risk burning out the exhaust valves; usually engines run a bit rich at high RPM/full throttle so that you have a bit of fuel left in the exhaust to cool the valves; at least that's my understanding - could easily be wrong.

Cheers,
Robin

Based on that theory Donald's exhaust should be like ice judging by the amount of fuel he was throwing down the exhaust. Yet it is hot enough to melt his bodywork... (some wilful misunderstanding of concepts)

[captain]

So has anyone actually tested to see if the standard Honda ecu does indeed run lean with the elise manifold?

[Ferg]

IIRC the exhaust ports are on different sides of the head so a Honda conversion will always use a different manifold.

[robin]

"Elise manifold" as in the manifold that various Honda kit suppliers supply to fit the engine to the Elise.

Not yet Captain - I will be doing the rolling road day Simon is organising so will get a AFR plot.

Cheers,
Robin

[Ferg]

Gotcha. Elise kit vs OEM.

[captain]

"Elise manifold" as in the manifold that various Honda kit suppliers supply to fit the engine to the Elise.

Not yet Captain - I will be doing the rolling road day Simon is organising so will get a AFR plot.

Cheers,
Robin

Indeed, I maybe wasn't clear. I meant - has anyone used the stock ecu with a honda conversion and found that it runs lean? I know Stark think it does, Craig doesn't seem convinced.

Thanks Robin, look forward to seeing your results!

[captain]

Well I can offer some experience now

I picked up my Honda'd s1 from Craig earlier in the week. I stuck with the standard civic ECU and it's a bit of a pig when cold: spluttery, stalls on a closed throttle etc for the first 5 minutes until the engine warms up. Ok out in the country but a pain in the arse in town! Heel/toe shifting is fine but sitting at junctions it's difficult to keep the revs steady as it "hunts".

Awesome workmanship, communication and service from Craig as expected but I'll be getting a Hondata sooner rather than later and have it mapped properly.

[istoo]

cool will be round for a test drive tonight

[captain]

Ha, not tonight mate. once it's all sorted you can though

[ironside]

Mine did a lot of what you're describing on the standard ECU (and also on the Hondata on the stock supplied map before it was mapped by TDI North).
It didn't hunt but was horrible to drive for the first mile or so. Spitting and kangaroo petrol.

This all went away with mapping. It idles much higher when stone cold and doesn't do any of the spluttering or kangaroo petrol you're describing.
You're welcome to a shot of mine to see the difference.

[tut]

As long as everything else has been done well, you are purely at the stage where the car needs mapping, whether it be by the Hondata route or K-Pro.

Could not give a big rats ass what people think about Scuffers, listen to his thousands of hours of experience on mapping, and do not listen to anyone that tells you that you can get away without it. You are finding out first hand at the moment, but I know the you are planning to get it on the RR in the near future.

tut

ps:- three Honda engined Elises, several hundred thousands of miles.

[captain]

Thanks Simon, very kind offer and if i'm in or around Edinburgh soon I might well take you up on that

I don't really want to take time off work for a trip down to TDI North for mapping if I can avoid it - I'm a scumbag contractor so days off to do simple jobs get expensive taking into account lost earnings.

Anyone know a trusted vehicle transport firm who have experience of moving Elises?

[graeme]

It would be worth the trip!

I had a good go of Simon's at the weekend, and it's a flawless map. Well behaved, no flat spots, perfect v-tec-yo behavior, perfect cold start. Loadsa power. Very impressive. If I was doing one, I would just copy what Simon has done to the letter. Can't see any reason to go a different path.